Last January, my company, Fark.com, was sued along with Yahoo, MSN, Reddit, AOL, TechCrunch and others by a company called Gooseberry Natural Resources. Gooseberry owned a patent for the creation and distribution of news releases via email. (Laughter) Now it may seem kind of strange that such a thing can actually be patented, but it does happen all the time. Take something already being done and patent it for an emerging technology — like phone calls on the internet or video listings for TV shows or radio but for cellphones, and so on. The problem with these patents is that the mechanisms are obscure and the patent system is dysfunctional, and as a result, most of these lawsuits end in settlements. And because these settlements are under a non-disclosure agreement, no one knows what the terms were. And as a result, the patent troll can claim that they won the case. In the case of Gooseberry Natural Resources, this patent on emailing news releases had sort of a fatal flaw as it pertained to myself, and that was that in the mainstream media world there is only one definition for news release, and it turns out that is press release — as in P.R. Now my company, Fark, deals with news, ostensibly, and as a result we were not in violation of this patent. So case closed, right? Wrong. One of the major problems with patent law is that, in the case that when you are sued by a patent troll, the burden of proof that you did not infringe on the patent is actually on the defendant, which means you have to prove that you do not infringe on the patent they’re suing you on. And this can take quite a while. You need to know that the average patent troll defense costs two million dollars and takes 18 months when you win. That is your best case outcome when you get sued by a patent troll. Now I had hoped to team up with some of these larger companies in order to defend against this lawsuit, but one-by-one they settled out of the case, even though — and this is important — none of these companies infringed on this patent — not a one of them. And they started settling out. The reason they settled out is because it’s cheaper to settle than to fight the lawsuit — clearly, two million dollars cheaper in some cases, and much worse if you actually lose. It would also constitute a massive distraction for management of a company, especially a small eight-man shop like my company. Six months into the lawsuit, we finally reached the discovery phase. And in discovery phase, we asked the patent troll to please provide screenshots of Fark where the infringement of their patent was actually occurring. Now perhaps it’s because no such screenshots actually existed, but suddenly Gooseberry wanted to settle. Their attorney: “Ah, yes. My company’s having a reorganization on our end.” Never mind the fact that the address led to a strip mall somewhere in Northern L.A. with no employees. “And we’d like to go ahead and close this out. So would you mind giving us your best and final offer?” My response: “How about nothing?!” (Applause) We didn’t have high hopes for that outcome. (Laughter) But they settled. No counter offer. Now, as mentioned before, one of the reasons I can talk to you about this is because there’s no non-disclosure agreement on this case. Now how did that happen? Well during the settlement process, when we received our copy, I struck it. My attorney said, “Nah, no chance of that working.” It came back signed. Now why? You can call them. They’re not under NDA either. Now what did I learn from this case? Well, three things. First of all, if you can, don’t fight the patent, fight the infringement. Patents are very difficult to overturn. Infringement is a lot easier to disprove. Secondly, make it clear from the beginning that either you have no money at all or that you would rather spend money with your attorney fighting the troll than actually giving them the money. Now the reason this works is because patent trolls are paid a percentage of what they’re able to recover in settlements. If it becomes clear to them that they cannot recover any money, they become less interested in pursuing the case. Finally, make sure that you can tell them that you will make this process as annoying and as painful and as difficult as possible for them. Now this is a tactic that patent trolls are supposed to use on people to get their way. It turns out, because they’re paid on contingency, it works really, really well in reverse. Don’t forget that. So what does all this mean? Well to sum up, it boils down to one thing: Don’t negotiate with terrorists. (Applause) Patent trolls have done more damage to the United States economy than any domestic or foreign terrorist organization in history every year. And what do they do with that money? They plow it right back into filing more troll lawsuits. Now this is the point in the Talk where I’m supposed to come up with some kind of a solution for the patent system. And the problem with that is that there are two very large industry groups that have different outcomes in mind for the patent system. The health care industry would like stronger protections for inventors. The hi-tech industry would like stronger protections for producers. And these goals aren’t necessarily diametrically opposed, but they are at odds. And as a result, patent trolls can kind of live in the space in between. So unfortunately I’m not smart enough to have a solution for the patent troll problem. However, I did have this idea, and it was kind of good. And I thought, “I should patent this.” (Laughter) Behold, patent infringement via mobile device — defined as a computer which is not stationary. My solution: award me this patent and I will troll them out of existence. Thank you. (Applause)
yep good one, there should be more like him, no terrorist would get any of my money either
hahahahahaha agreed!
I would argue that it isn't the patent system that is at fault. The reason the burden of proof is reversed is to ensure large corporations do not use their sway to take advantage of small companies and individuals from having their patents infringed.
The REAL issue is the attorneys that push these lawsuits as well as the scammers that exploit the system. I would target that area. Money grubbing lawyers increase costs across the board for frivilous lawsuits.
I wish the rating system still existed. I would give this video a 3/5.
Uh, look into this:
burden of proof of infringement rests with plaintiff,
burden of proof of the patent's invalidity rests with defendant.
That may be why later in the talk he advised to focus on infringement, not on attacking the patent's validity.
#ThisCommentDoesNotConstitueLegalAdviceSoConsultYourAttorney
i see jack bauer giveing speech
This guy is mt hero! It's about time these bloodsuckers are stopped. Patenting some vague idea and suing over it should be outlawed. I hope others take his advice.
You're a dreamer.
But dreaming it doesn't mean it's impossible or not worth doing.
Wanna work with me on this?
MAN, ECONOMY, AND STATE by Murray Rothbard
Ch. 10 – MONOPOLY AND COMPETITION
7. Patents and Copyrights
patents = goverment granted monopoly privilege
"…Patents prevent a man from using his invention even though all the property is his and he has not stolen the invention, either explicitly or implicitly, from the first inventor.
Patents, therefore, are grants of exclusive monopoly privilege by the State and are invasive of property rights on the market."
We need to go deeper.
DIRECT COSTS OF 911 EXCEED 2.6 TRILLION US DOLLARS.
Due to idiotic choices and dumb wars..
The problem with this speaker'a attitude is that he proposes to treat all infringement claims as frivolous without reference to the merits. That might have been appropriate in this case but it won't be so for all. His attitude reflects that of many executives who think that all claims filed against their firms are frivolous. This attitude is as much to blame for the inflated cost of litigation as are plaintiff attorneys and patent trolls who file truly frivolous lawsuits. Not TED-worthy.
This speakers attitude is not at all invalid! He is talking about patent trolls, not legitimate patent holders going to court, but bogus patent trolls. Thus the title of the presentation, and hell he even mentions it in the very opening. Totally TED-Worthy.
My dream has been to become a patent troll ever since i heard about them a few years ago.
What's with the number change between 5:31 and 5:33?
"Patent troll? YOU GET NOTHING!"
Great video.
By the way, am I the only one that thinks he says his company is named 'Fart.com'? 🙂
Different time scale, and economic damages vs physical damages.
Patent-trolls are bullies.
I think he misstates the law. For patent infringement, the burden of proof rests on the plaintiff to prove by clear and convincing evidence that the defendant infringed the patent.
To prove that the patent was invalid (wrongfully issued by the USPTO), the burden rests on the defendant.
I tried giving this two thumbs up but youtube actually sneered at me 🙁
DID HE?
Legend.
After reading this, the word 'patent' has lost its meaning to me.
just end patents. let people register but don't let anyone "own" an idea.
I never realized I could make millions trolling
trolling like a sir.
Minus one for the patent infringement lawyers.
Troll
Drew Curtis for World President
I want to know what techniques they used to annoy the trolls. I bet that is a fun story.
Patents are protected by the Constitution, specifically Article 1, Section 8.
We can make an amendment.
so patent trolls are like UNTRA telephone salesmen…
ULTRA
This makes me think of the whole "Conjopi" issue with false flagging for popular LPers on YouTube in the summer of 2010.
I think Notch saw this.
Uniloc v. Everyone = D d d d d done beotch!
Drew curtis, please sue uniloc for stealing your patent
Unilock is why i'm here they are patent trolls
i would completly do away with patents if it was up to me
man, i love this guy
Call us for Trademark! Guaranteed best price!
Prime example: Apple vs Samsung
which would destroy the economy…
lol, enlighten me
Patents protect inventors and producers from having their ideas stolen. If anyone could just copy everything someone else is doing you would have no brands and no companies producing high quality products because it simply wouldn't make sense to do it.
you have beaten my argument with logic !!
Poorfag? No money? Fear not troll science haz answer!!11one!?!
Step 1. Patent everything (Brotip: patent magnets first, stop other trollfags).
Step 2. Hunt down fag companies breaking patents (Brotip: use patented magnets for faster hunting).
Step 3. Sue companies, watch them all go 'FUUUUU' as they need out-of-court settlementz/ expensive lawyers.
CONGRATULATIONS YOU NOW HAVE INFINITE MONEYZ + MARKET CONTROL. ALL COMPANIEZ WILL GO BANKRUPT.
Problem, innovaters? U jelly, software developers?!?!?
So basically… he didn't infringe, lost $2M fighting this, then settled for $0? Surely he should have settle for *negative* $2M, then he would have broken even.
actually.. Samsung is
but you're wrong, samsung bought the patents fairly. apple is trying to sue people for rounded corners.
Nope. I studied patent law extensively in my collegiate years… Samsung never paid royalty fees for the patents from Apple; you can argue the classic rounded corners phrase, but there's no shortcoming or doubt that Samsung violates multiple Apple patents in iOS mainframe. I'm not going to defend Apple, but they invented and felt like they should protect their creation using standardized patents, so there could be competition in the industry, but as few "copycats" as possible.
Samsung bought over 17000 patents, the only thing apple was trying to sue was rounded corners something that is natural and they have no right to sue over.
Well, I don't know if you're speaking about a specific lawsuit in mind or not; the California court order was on UI for inertial scrolling and multi-touch gestures and document viewing… Samsung never paid royalty fees for these. And rounded corners isn't something natural exactly… it's obviously a copied design from the success of the iPhone. Google still thinks the patent is about geometry. As it stands though, the entire patent system infrastructure is dysfunctional and is rendering silly.
what everyone likes to forget is that microsoft created the first touchpad device in 2001 but it was never as popular.
I think Apollo Computer and Domain Workstations built the first touchpad in the early 80's… must have been around the time the Lisa came to market. The touchpad was integrated into their keyboards, either to the left or the right, and they worked together to incorporate one of the preliminary GUI systems. Microsoft manufacturers made a touchpad in '95 and integrated it into their first laptops. Never became popular either. Apple was working on a tablet and made a prototype in 1999.
What needs to be patented is the patent trolling process; that little joke in the end didn't make much sense…
So basically, meta-trolling… I like it!
I patented one brick upon the other and every building on earth owns me money. Ofcourse I am kidding. What about "calculating device"? wheeled vehicle? paper bound one one side? Kudos to Dew. May the cash-flow be with you.
Curtis, mentions two important things here… Trolls and, gooseberries… but no mention of the small puddle, the pond, or the ocean. Still, the water pools.
drink some fucking water, that sick sound is fucking annoying.
Too bad he didn't say how much it actually cost him to achieve that result.
I'm guessing you just love Google…the tech industry's most litigious company…
One could spam around the settlement terms before signing the NDA.
SEX!
Now that i have your attention, could you please explain the "Patent infringement via mobile device" joke to me? I'm kind of slow with jokes and that one was too fast for me.
Apple = Evil
Google = Good
Yes, i love Google.
he is trolling them back making his own patent for patent infringement
fart.com
Hahahaha, i get it now :')
How so? I've never actually heard of them doing something like this.
Oh yeah, those lawsuits against Samsung?
Apple just patented multi-touch. They are also attempting to patent pinch to zoom. The CEO had stated that he didn't believe in patenting things that are essential to computer functionality, but they constantly do the opposite.
You are both idiots. Apple and Google are both corporations and would both perpetuate this patent nonsense.
Adam Carolla is fighting the good fight against patent trolls. Like to keep this link up to the patent troll legal fund. http://fundanything.com/en/campaigns/patenttroll
I have a better idea to deal with patent trolls.
Why don't victims of patent trolls start collecting Bitcoins to hire hitmen from the Silk Road? If Patent Trolls think it's cool to use the system that the people have no control of, then why don't the people start using a greater system that the law has no control of?
I doubt a patent troll would get any kind of sympathy for being assassinated, that'd be social justice from my point of view.
Website forums that serve as echo chambers for insufferable hipsters who don't have the nerve or the courage to be snarky in real life and shadow ban anyone they can't beat in a debate… yeah, would love to wanna have sympathy, but just can't manage it.
fight infringement
no money, and want to fight. make it difficult to recovery.
draw it out make it very difficult to collect.
don't negotiate.
Best Starting Defense: Peremptory Challenges of the Jury. In a civil case you get several chances to challenge members of the jury for bias. The reasoning being that members of the Jury have also used the Patent in Question therefore violating their ability to be bias. Good luck for opposing council to find somebody who hasn't used the internet. You can get Jury member stricken later and possibly the judge if you really wanted to drag it out. I think going after the judge would be a grave mistake, but nevertheless.. an option. If you represent yourself it will cost you nothing and cost them thousands. If you lose you can file an appeal for jury bias once you run out of Peremptory Challenges. These trolls need to stop. Get informed http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1870
at least you have laws. a lot of cuntries does not, their law enforcers just want money instead of laws being upheld.
UNILOC are real ASSHOLES
could one solution to the patent system be that anyone who has a patent for a certain idea has to show proof of useing/producing it
Place a patent for being sued by a patent troll.
Profit.
To the guy who commented "That's Capitalism for ya"
No, it is actually the antithesis of it. Capitalism is simply the assertion that the Owner of a value(product, service, or self) is the sole authority over transfer of ownership.
Patent trolling is the opposite, it is an attempt to steal the value of your product or service through corruption of a system that was intended to protect it.
…and the politicians doesn't care. Go America!
The solution is put the burden of proof on the patent owner. Innocent until proven guilty. Patent owners have to show how their product A is loosing money because of use in product B. Without those two things the problem is solved. Patents were designed to help original inventors, patent lawsuits could be restricted to only the original inventors being able to file suits.
41 people are patent trolls
$2 million is pretty expensive when you consider that a baseball bat & a balaclava will run you less than $100.
Throw in another hundy or so for transport costs & start at the bottom of the companies org chart & work your way up.
“My offer is this, nothing.” Make al pachino play Drew in the film version of this story
Or as a news site like this, don't incorporate and host in US. There are a lot of companies that has to do business in the US. But fark probably could've sold their assets to Fark Belize LLC with a fictional CEO and unclear ownership. Good luck to the patent troll getting even the lawsuit properly served.
No no no no no… take care of it the old school way. All the judges are in cahoots with these animals. Treat them as such and I guarantee something will change. 🔫💣🔪⚰️
Brilliant. You would never believe how close this story is to my own. The only difference between yours and mine is that the trolls I faced tried to cancel my Federal Trademarks. Which yes, Drew is right on the money 1-2 million dollars to defend. These freaks however did have a settlement agreement which said they could not bring litigation on my or my Federal Trademarks. In the Settlement is also clearly said that they had understood and agreed that my Federal Trademarks were clearly mine. One of them they admitted to never had ever used. Then when they filed the cancelation they decided to file it on "both" my Trademarks " making that a Federal Fraud Issue" since I have their John Doe on a document claiming they've never used it. Trademarks in our Patent and Trademark Office are also a huge issue. Because Troll try to go on the Lanham act. These low lifes had zero legal protection, they are a DBA which in fact "never even registered it in their county clerk's Office" until after they received a notification by a District Court Judge stating that they would be charged on infringment. Only then did they run to their county clerk and register it… again one more case of Fraud on them. Because to register a DBA you sign a statement claiming you are unaware of anyone using that DBA name. So now they are up on two counts of fraud and most likely know it or do not know it. The entire time they pulled all this bullshit off, I was being nice and doing nothing. One of them even emailled me a threatening email. ANyone have any advice as to what I should do about it?
A simple solution is that if you own a patent, you must have a running business that is making use of the product or idea that you have patented.
That way, these patent trolls, and many other ridiculous unused patents will become void and invalid,
and the only patents will be given to products and ideas that are being manufactured or used by a company or business.
I wonder if this is where Silicon Valley got the idea of Richard reaching out to other companies to fight the troll only to have them settle out behind his back
THIS NEEDS MORE VIEWS!!! SHARE MOTHERFUCKAS
Patent troll is BS , legend to justify America Invent Act. You tell us some BS story about how skill full you are in Stealing somebody else property. According to your definition any inventor who own a patent is patent Troll. Thats why most of investors investing in Intellectual property invest now in China and US patent currently is worthless. In Germany for example if you infringe you GO TO JAIL. SIMPLE Not in US. You can openly brag about that you are THIEF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG9UMMq2dz4
Turns out the cell phone was patented in 2010. Anyone using a cell phone is infringing on that patent right now.
so if I patent the idea of "a device that uses ink for multi-purposes." I get to sue EVERYONE who uses pens, markers, paint brushes etc?…. wow.
Your company WHAT ?!!