Today we interview Birgit Lechtermann also called Biggi, hello, hello I’m glad you have time today to talk to us about your computer journalist history, yeah. Yes, with pleasure. I already had Chris Spanik and Wolfgang Back before and then everyone said to me, now you have them both now you have to interview Bigi as well Although I think they are better at pure technology, but see if I still have a clue. okay well, Klaus Möller is unfortunately no longer available A pity, that’ s a pity, a dear colleague with whom I enjoyed to work together. Otherwise we would have made a tripartite conference but good, but good then, let’s start very early, how did you get into journalism once? so I actually started an education because I didn’t even know what to do, I wanted to study medicine at one of the biggest media companies in the world , I almost said that at bertelsmann in schilden gütersloh and there came the topic “we want to start a radio club”. and then they looked for someone who is the same age and who understands the young people and that was me, and then the show was called ” from Luxembourg on Saturdays” there were just interviews, at that time still over the telephone than then the colleague got sick who did this show “radio club” for two hours on Saturday and then they said, you have to go there to Luxembourg and do the show I’ll make this short. That was great, they made me an offer and said you fit right into the microphone I said okay. don’t you ever want to? at that time I already had my own show called “Lider lotto in the morning at 11 a.m.” and then rang one day in the show while we were doing a live action interactively with the audience, besides the callers rang our phone from the villa Luveniere from secretariat. and they said, “There’s gonna be an important call , you gotta answer it, you just hang up the whole time.” then I said that I always get a call from someone who says “hello hello I’m the entertainment director of ZDF” and then I just answered “and I’m the queen of china”. and then the colleague from the villa Lubihi said, “if you ever want a job at ZDF, just answer the phone”, I said “during the show?” “Yes”, and then I really answered it was the entertainment director who said, “Let’s make an appointment. If you look like you sound, I think we should do it urgently, Then we could also talk about TV”. Gut it’s almost a prejudice nowadays. Yes, but it was so at that time. It was really the wording It was really the wording and that’s true, that would be a real prejudice now my daughter would say ” it doesn’t work like that” but then it was so and then we met and then he said relatively quickly that we will do children’s shows and that would be exactly the right thing. Ok yes then how does the big arc come to the computer show, I have to say at that time, so I was born 82. that means I only remember the end of the 80s as a little child but I know that my parents told me once computers are only for playing and well.. and there was of course the other section they said, computers take away our jobs as teachers and so on.. so the time when adults would say computers are important and will someday determine our lives… it wasn’t like that… That is true. how did you decide to say, “I’ll do a computer show”, just technically open or…Yes, I was at ZDF when I moderated the game program and had a lot of contact with the children and youth department and then I met our esteemed colleague Mr. Möller and he said “I plan something with computers” I said “With computers?” . “Yeah, and with computer games and so, but there is a casting for the show, do you want to come to the casting?” I said “Okay” completely cluesless and then, he did the casting, so to speak and it wasn’t just about computer and games, it was also about information but also about fun and entertainment and than he said “Great, you combine both, you can also explain well” so I could go through the material relatively quickly or use the computer more or watch the games and could summarize it, explain, briefly and succinctly and I think he was the one who made the decision and than I went straight to computer corner Ok interesting, now, of course you have a discussion partner, interview partner how does the planning of this kind of show work? Well, I guess that was a little different then than it is now. With Ralf Möller, you just have, you know, let’s say, he came and has some games under his arm and then some either atari commodore parts or something else and says, shortly before the show “Wow just arrived we have to play that right now” And there wasn’t such a mega-preparation of course, we knew what it was all about, but we always looked big in the studio and said “boah that’s great” so it was always a bit spontaneous and therefore also very authentic, because i always talked to the computer people and the developers before it went on show. yes for example, this werner game that in this one show in 88. was shown by Feldmann Brösel, I remember I watched it and found it very funny that he meant “yes in the beginning I found it really funny to make the pixel graphics for the game, but at some point it was too boring for me and I said, let the professionals do it”, you’ll say nowadays…you can’t actually say that into the camera anymore, can you? that it’s too boring to work with computers Yes, so I don’t know how it looks like just to program the whole day although many people find it very exciting I don’t know but he came from somewhere else, you have to see it that way he really came from the completely different corner and you have to sit there and have to and program silently in front of you so I could understand that, yeah but we also had a lot of creative people in the show who actually designed big programs and that was very exciting so first how they came up to the idea and then the still have implemented themselves so it went relatively quickly into games let’s say where you can fight against opponents. I almost said yeah so where you don’t play against the computer but where a community got together and it was really exciting then did you somehow instruct the guests what they should say, what they shouldn’t say? did you just say then, we just take what’s coming and then record it? so of course there is, as always, so so we were a bit journalistic already, yeah, there was as always an introduction. so that was not a blind date, yeah but, that was not so “what’s the name of the game”, instead I watched it before, I liked to talk before and then there were an interview about it. it’s interesting that you see it that way. because Klaus Möller wrote articles about computer corner on video games blog. he meant that it was very unprofessional and so the show was cheap. yes but I think he meant it differently and and in the beginning I didn’t really have a clue what was coming when i watched TV. then suddenly somehow computers came into the studio and the technician said “hmm we have to connect it to the video wall?” “yes, we have to connect it” “if that doesn’t have a proper TV picture then we’ll throw it out” of course it didn’t had a proper TV picture and that was first of all that was so to speak it has two different things colliding with each other. then of course we said at some point “wait a minute, here have to come those who have a clue, they also have to connect the computers so that it looks a little bit better and I think that he meant with a little unprofessional, because we didn’t take it we didn’t have any 500,000 euro as maybe today entertainmetshows have to do such a show but that was of course a bit like “let’s have a look… get someone who can make it”. did you look a bit to the right and left what, for example, the WDR computer club does, two years later they 82. started with their shows, they already had some experience, did the official TV channels cooperate with each other, or somehow copied something, or was that totally self-sufficient? The answer is no, because our show was also different, we had for example, two school classes and so in the show, who could then play against each other in the show, and as an audience also took part, that was a bit different, that was a bit more action, and it went a bit beyond the actual games, or I say descriptions of the games and actually we didn’t look, we didn’t cheat. that’s interesting, because I asked Wolfgang Back the same question, he also said, “no, the others didn’t interest us”. Yes, you can also say it that way, you can also bring it to the point, I was still charming. it was so, that the computer corner went actually only four years, 85. to 88. and I wonder, was there a reason, that it was so quickly canceled or was the time then somehow expired. that’s actually the mistake, it wasn’t cancelled at all, but we thought that we could only have continued with new games, new devices and and.. to introduce, which in our opinion had become a bit outdated from the concept at some point and we said “why shouldn’t we spread it, there are so many other topics let’s not just call it computer corner let’s call it technology, learning technology 2000” and then it flowed so over against each other and then we had really other big topics not just computers and that was also exciting All right, we’ll come back to that later, now you just said something interesting “new concepts” were you already aware at that time, for example you presented the “Robot Rascals” by Dan Bunten in a show, that was later Danielle Bunten, that’s pretty cool, that you introduce a product, I think for that time from someone who still has to find his identity, then there was the game “Robot Rascals” the first computer-assisted card game Was that then aware of the new worlds you’d come across or was it just “yes, there’s a computer-assisted card game now”? so after the first shows I always told my father a little bit what it was about, it was recorded, it wasn’t live and then every time I came home I said “we recorded a show again , with these and these topics” then he always looked at me with big glasses and said “I don’t understand anything”, because it was difficult to explain to the parents “Hey, there’s not only a nixdorf computer in your office, there’ s actually a cool computer and consoles that you can play with” that was all very new and of course we introduced one or the other program that then became really awesome, but back then we weren’t aware of that, so we introduced everything and thought “ok that’s just normal” yes for example Bards Taylors has become very successful. That role-playing game; introduced at that time with the colleague Heinrich Rehnhald from the powerplay, so there was a cooperation with such topics… yes so there was already a cooperation in so far that one said ” we will get the interesting people also to the interview “, but there was no cooperation with anyone. okay okay yes it is very interesting, because I remember when I interviewed Stuard from computer corner, he always said “it was hard in the beginning to convince the people to come to the show, because they always thought “yes, what’s going to jump out for us then” did you have enough audience at all, does the format help at all, do I get enough speaking time, was that a topic in the computer corner? No, so it had turned around relatively quickly what we show, it was unusual that there was action in the studio, and everyone was happy to come and everyone was happy to introduce something.later it was great , in the show technology 2000, we traveled more, we were, for example, also in “Palo Alto”, there we filmed too. There I got my first apple laptop, by the way, I got it lying around somewhere, I have to find it, the laptop was so thick, so thick and with a button in the middle, and so on I got it there as a present, and because I found it so crazy and because there were still trial phases with the thing, so if you imagine it all, this development has become so rapid, you wouldn’t have thought so at that time. now you’ve said that your father found it more and more interesting and didn’t understand anything and you said at the beginning that you were able to find your way into new topics quite quickly. so that means practical, was there before interest in general about the computer series or was that really only triggered by the show that you now have to work on it The other way. i’ve always had an interest in technology, I used to disassemble my car a cabriolet and then everyone said “are you crazy?” this was a beetle, a cabriolet, I said “why, it has to be painted” so there I unscrewed it and so on and then we painted it. I was really familiar with technology, that wasn’t a problem though. With the beetle, however, we painted it in a man’s workshop, was a carpenter in a workshop and anyone who has ever painted a car in a workshop knows what happens. when the paint dries, it looks like orange peel afterwards, because it doesn’t get into this chamber, into this drying chamber, there filed all sorts of flies around and so on. That’s what it looked like, but I got it screwed together again. so technical interest was always there, drove car races and other things, so I was already interested in all that… car racing, okay, I didn’t know that yet. [laughing] Ford Fiesta Cup, then Alfa Romeo Cup and all that so, it was really fun, but you also need the appropriate driving license and the appropriate permits, let’s say and I was interested in technology, and somehow even the guys earlier, when I was very young I had an motorbike, they tried to make it faster. I said “what are you doing there, you just have to drill something at the bottom” and the joke was, the thing got so fast, I’ll never forget that. I apparently drove over a traffic light, and then I was flashed, and my father got a fine-payment, it said “with the motorbike, I don’t know, flashed at 80″. There he said” that is not possible, how is that supposed to work, I first have to go there, that is not possible at all” and I just was ” for goodness sake”. (laughing) awesome, awesome your question was, I’ ve always had fun with technology, , today it’s still the same, so I get into it, my colleagues always say “how do you do it on computers, , you create your own presentations, and everything else, you’re on instagram, on facebook, you do everything possible there” I am into it, because it’s also enjoyable for me that’s of course great, so practical, you also have a bit of a hobby on your work, what does it look like with discussions, , I mean, the topics repeated, for example, with computer games – the topic of killer games, violence and so on. How was it then? that was actually a new medium, was the whole thing even more demonized in spite of the pixel graphics? yes, so we were afraid, actually about topics like wala games and everything like that, it was all a bit… but i don’t think there was that much attention in the end, because actually television as a medium was much bigger, or radio was much bigger, now if we look at it today, it’s almost the opposite. a colleague was here today, who used to be at ZDF, he visited me today. he said, “can you imagine that there are communities meanwhile, in other countries that are so big, like big stadiums here.and then there are games played against each other, almost like in the Olympic Games” this is such a mass phenomenon, and of course it didn’t exist in the past in that form. you could hardly afford your computer. or gaming computer and now back to the core of the question. yes, I think so, with my experience in the mediums that the walagames, not necessarily a… I’ ll formulate it correctly now… can have a positive influence on some of the developments for children and teenagers. did i say that juridically well? I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer. (laugh) I just think it’s unhealthy when young people just sit in front of computer games and play some walla games, killer games so i think you have to take a good look, you have to keep a good eye on it. if it’s healthy, if it’ s good what they do. and then you notice that young people are becoming more and more withdrawn, and then at the latest you should say: stop! But there are also adults who also have this problem, there are really game-addicted, computer game-addicted people. I have a friend whose husband was really computer-addicted. they are now separated, unfortunately I have to say it this way, because he sat at the computer all day and all night, and when you see one like him, you have to say: caution, caution. okay cool I have to say that in the computer corner the pictures have of course been well chosen at ballstayler, they had a nice intro and in the game, how you sneak through the halls,but not how you kill a monster, of course that wasn’t shown. no, because we looked very closely at that, but that’s impossible to avoid today, but at that time you could have a little influence on it, that’s no longer possible today, because every child, if it has a mobile phone or a smartphone, can get access to any game. so I think that just education does good and checking does good, so I have nothing against it, gaming is great, but you have to see exactly what’s happening there. what I found interesting, without coming back to the show, with Dan Bunten and his “Robot Rascals” what really tells the history in the beginning, he was very successful.. is such an economy-game, in such an alien-universe, you have to get really into it and i think at that time that was probably much, much harder than nowadays. nowadays you watch Wikipedia and you know everything you need to know that’s true, that’s why I always say, i almost said these days.. at that time we watched it all, researched it, put it together, we thought about it, how summarized can I explain it, that somebody understands it, and we didn’t rewrite anything that was already there, because there were no slides where you could copy anything, and you’re absolutely right, that’s of course different today with Wikipedia, that’s why there are so many journalistic and technical mistakes, because a mistake is taken over five hundred times and not corrected. and somebody is than 10 years older than he is. and that never changes if it were younger, then it would be fine that’s exactly what practically happened to some youtubers, who then published biographies to consider the whole thing, is very funny. is there then any situation, any guest or any game, which was especially enjoyable for you, in the computer corner, which got stuck in memory there? No, I mean, we used to play the classics over and over, honestly “Pong” was a classic after all and when we had time in the studio, then everyone screamed “pooong!” and then of course we also played it “klack klack klack” otherwise I liked it more when we talked about cool technology, outside the games sector technology 2000, of course there are interviews from Palo Alto we were in the garage where we developed things. such things got stuck in memory and were unusual. we showed there how ZULUMUS flies with a joystick in the front and said, look, we could fly this too, because we had all simulation programs, which was nonsense but he at least had the joystick and such stories were also very cool because it was just a number bigger. where he at technology 2000 or the computer corner also had some dry topics, for example at technology 2000 there was a show about how to save power, then I thought, but that’s an extremely dry topic. that wasn’t so dry, that was exciting, because more and more computers came up, more and more technology came up, and if we look back today, we were far ahead of our time. but that’s true. or at the computer corner, for example chess computer, you said at the beginning that you were in the department store a week before the show and the salesman was totally overwhelmed and I was wondering if that’s really true or if you thought up the story for the show No, that was really true I always prepared myself for the show and so I marched into the department store and thought, okay next week we’ll record, let’s see what they have to offer. and he really only said “eh, eh” all the time I think he didn’t understand anything and he couldn’t explain it to me either and I thought, okay if he can’t explain it, then at least in the show we have to explain how it works it is then practically that the experiences from the real life, were partial topics for the shows.. partially. absolutely, absolutely that’s how it was. so first of all I said something wrong before, of course his name is Klaus Möller, I’ ve said Ralf Möller before, I don’t know how either, i was thinking about our bodybuilder somehow. so of course the dear Klaus tested all the games. and then he either hit the keyboard in the office or yelled “no!” or “why isn’t there more?” or something and he tested so much that he said at some point that we should take a closer look now. yes well, in the example of chess computers you even invited a producer of chess computers to the show that was practically free advertising for the colleagues. that was allowed at that time, but he was good, I must say so he was worth recommending but that’s true. when you look at the feedback on youtube about the old shows, many people say that you were so the cool one, modern one and Klaus was so the shy nerd, who somehow didn’t look very good in front of the camera. did you see it that way too? I wouldn’t say that at all, but of course he was also an editor during his career, at some point he naturally acted there in front of the camera, but he was the knowledgeable one, that’s what I want to say, he had a good knowledge, a really good knowledge. so when I called him when I had a computer problem, I said “listen Klaus, do you have an idea” he always laughed his head off and said “i’m not an IT-specialist” but he knew that all and I’ve casual, easily done the interviews and I came from a radio Luxembourg, where we talked casual with the listeners, and then of course I talked casual in the studio and also with our guests. now I would like to know, I mean my knowledge does not go back that far now, have you also had international guests? hmm I can’ t say that today, but I have a basement and if you want to, and if you have time, and have holidays, then you have to allow yourself the time, maybe three days, maybe a week, and then you go to my basement. and in the storage there are all the shows, and I’ m looking for someone who can finally somehow put them on DVD, or something like that and then I could say “aah that was in that and that show” I made so many shows, that I can’t tell you anymore. Interestingly, I also have an interview on this topic. to clean up the basement? No, for data archiving. we will talk to him and then he can put all the shows, I still have all the shows, yes then he should put it online so I have to say something sweet, I was at the gamescom, and there were of course the Youtubers and what I know they’ re all game developers, and there were a lot of teenagers and kids out there, and I was supposed to do an interview with someone. and suddenly there was a whole bunch of young people behind me and they all said “hey you, yeah you” and then I thought there were some important people around… “no, you!” i turned around “you’re Birgit Lechtermann” and me… i was really stunned and then they told me and that was so crazy, “yes this computer corner show, it’s cool and we’re looking for clips and shows on the internet, because we find it somehow so funny and so cult, the old shows” and there i already said “hey, if you really want, clean up my basement, then we can put the whole thing online”.that’s super interesting, the wayback machine tells you something ? archive.org, where you can see homepages like they were ten years ago, and this project archive.org, which archives books and shows and so on, we will talk to the director of the archiving,next week so tell him about my basement,I would be so grateful, I would minimize that volume, I mean, it wasn’t just ” technology 2000 “, it wasn’t just ” computer corner “, it was ” 1, 2 or 3 “, it was ” trivial Pursuit “,it was ” with the head through the wall “, it was ” small talk ” on RTL, it was ” Lechtermann live “.it was… i don’t remember anymore, it was “trivial pursuit” over 300-400 shows, it was then “live after nine”, then my health show, “Lechtamann health and life”, now if you put it all together, there’ of course a mega… so many shows comes together, I don’t know where to put it anymore. can i ask if he had anybody in germany from his team that would take care of that because they’ve been doing that since 1996. or something somebody wrote to me, if it wanted to… there was a radio show, there were still some radio cassettes out there” o no, cassettes” I said “yes, music cassettes, where you recorded that”, “yes, all of them, here with it.” yeah great, yeah awesome. how was that actually, did you take a look at what the international market is doing about computer corner stuff, Stuard Chofe, for example so Klaus Moller screened them all, so I think he didn’t do anything else than screening them all. I looked less, but I have to admit, I almost said to my relief, I prepared and moderated all of them parallel, then came at the same time “1 2 or 3″ then we always produced and then at some point the load was so full that you can hardly keep your eyes open in the evening I have to say, I know you as a kid from ” 1,2 or 3″ last chance, over. it was exactly like that, and there it went on and on, it came one show after the other and, yeah.. it’ s really like that … which is actually a pity, you need to have the time, but you don’t screen all the time but now when I think about my childhood, this computer series have found their way into TV more and more. for example, there was a show in ’94. ” catch Carmen Sandiego ” which was based on this 1985 game by Proterband “where in the world is Carmen Sandiego ” and i think “why do you catch a nine -year-old game for the Commodore 94. and get a license from the USA, which certainly wasn’t cheap, and turn it into a children show. I think It was a try, there was “Hugo” too. do you remember. yes, cable channel , so right, that was okay in that time. They tried They tried to react a bit to the new medium from the computer and say “how do I integrate it into the television?” but I think that it somehow didn’t succeed, so.. that was a try, It was worth a try. they probably thought that the television viewers weren’t so far away and didn’t realize that the game was old after all. yes well interestingly “rocco” was pretty successful that was showing up and somehow had seven different moderators over the time because it had been running for so long .That was sweet, somehow. That worked really well. which was again a concept from Denmark, so there was nothing that came from Germany. That’s my feeling. everything came somewhere from other countries. if I.. was very evil now, I would say there is still none. there was then I think somehow in Sat 1, the “super ball”, where you have to tell the moderator right, lings, with eyes bandaged… but that was so time-delayed, there you could not win at all No, and that made it a bit sluggish, too, huh? yeah…if you.. let’s talk a little bit about the ” technology 2000 ” you meant, during the time of the ” computer corner ” you thought we could do a little bit more than just computer games. now it was so, computer corner really not only did computer games but rather chess computers, there you also introduced the input 64, which was in magazines, with floppy disk or with data sets, with programs on it. that also was done with Klaus Möller this technology 2000 ” what was the concept there, because interestingly on the internet you can’ t find so much about “technology 2000” it didn’t reach the cult status, unfortunately we have to say. Yeah I think if I would upload more shows online, then were that the case. Because I think we all freaked out when there was the first airbus with a kind of joystick. We also did a lot of speaking… flight simulations, this was new at that time, but that we really were flying.. take-off and landing and I was allowed to moderate from the cockpit during the landing.
of course everything was new, it didn’t exist either and i think there were a lot of adventure things going on there for us. for example, we were in japan and looked at the first automated car production there, with robots, that was before.. it was kept small and in Japan it was in full swing and that was in the show, it was very unusual, because they also said, we will show you you everything we have there, and it was fun…but I remember, for example, an adventurous story, in the run-up to this airbus story with the joystick that we were supposed to pick up, we made a comparison, and there was a biplane open, where the fellow passenger was sitting in front, and the actual pilot behind, I was in front, of the pilot.. it was a pilot who had the necessary license to fly such old planes. he was sitting behind us,.. and we also had a button here in ear, so that we could always hear what our director said on the ground, of course he didn’t hear that, the pilot but i did, i always gave him the necessary sign. and we had so intercoms with which we, pilot and I, could talk he had explained to me before, if something happens to him, in front there are pedals, there you can compensate with them and then you have to fly with them. and I… “What should happen there? I had such a leather cap and glasses… and the colleagues from the direction said that everything has to be with sound, that used to be very difficult. There was such a big recorder, we had to tape it to the leg, we taped it to the leg, using the package tape all the time. always around again. It was like that back then, and today we would probably do it with a mobile phone. and say “hey” Then we recorded it with the sound and it happened as follows; the director said: “hey, that’s boring, you’re flying around, there are nice pictures… but you have to do more loops or something” and I thought that was a joke explain to the pilot behind me woo,woo, woo,and he and then he started, short flight, loops from the front then down and up again. then suddenly wuusch, it was passing behind my head, that was this sound machine, it has released , the package tape, hit him on the head, the pilot and he.. buuah and the machine went iiiiuuu and I, I was sitting in there “no, no, no” the pilot was really dizzy, that was a heavy thing and I was “what did he say, what did he say, what do you have to do, pull it up and something” and there I really was buuuh but in panic and in that moment he was too.. somewhere he was aware.. said oooh and pulled the thing iuuuu from below like that, then like that I just sat there and thought help, help. And then we arrived to the bottom that was close to to the Frankfurt airport, this cassette recorder, this big tape machine that released it had got a blow from above, we found it nowhere so somewhere there are still sound recordings, they have gone so deep into the earth, they still lie there… that means, there was the show without sound. No, I had to re-sync that. Oh, awesome, okay. the original recordings are still there. in 500 years someone will say, oh looks at that thing, and says “what is it” because it was an outstanding flying technology. Nowadays you take a go pro, cut out a helmet and problem solved.it’s crazy, and if I had a mobile phone back then, I would say, “okay kids, you want us to go fly from right to left, then we’ll do it.” But, crazy. Insane, insane. Well, if that was so for technology 2000, there were already mobile phones, only I think they were as big as bricks. Too bad I didn’t take it upstairs, I still have downstairs in my office a auto telephone. It’s so big and really heavy and has a real handset. awesome, the battery was the biggest, you had to carry, it in your suitcase. Insane insane. Yeah, great. and now of course the question is, if everything was so great, why didn’t you really do more technology shows afterwards or…But there’s none now, is there one where, so that’s what I’m gonna ask. well for example.. if I look at it so.. WDR computer club doesn’t exist any more but the one Wolfgang, he still makes computer club high 2 on YouTube but that’s a big pity, isn’t it? well, i mean there’s a lot of interesting technology, so why does the TV completely ignore it? I don’t know either. so I would be interested in that, but there is no show for young people, so it would be exciting if there was such a thing. but isn’t it so, that young people rather don’t use TV anymore, so I know many who say: “I only have a TV for Netflix and YouTube” 100% agreement from me, TV has missed a leap.. when I look at my daughter, she almost doesn’t watch TV, she says that’s not relevant for me, I get everything that’s relevant for me… I look at the media library, or I look for it on the internet, so it’s different now. But this is of the TV, because also the offers for the young people are just not there anymore. how is that, how do you find it so socially, so we have to say that now for example the computer corner was created in the time, where everything was great in Germany, just started with the computer series, but in the USA for example there was 83. the video game crash, where even ATARI banned all old modules and consoles, they were than the desert of Mexico forbidden which is known nowadays and it is.. so.. in my time, for example, i remember in elementary school my IT teacher was a woman, that wasn’t a problem for me, but in the last few years there were things like gamer gates, where it was said, women don’t belong in the video game industry and so on. sometimes i think isn’t is really a step backwards… I think there are two things.. that women can program games is not a problem, they can do it very well, i think it was more about games which women have created, so classic, in the character nice big breasts, very slim waist… a classic. and I think that’s the problem, a lot of them said, “hey that’s not pretty. Then a lot of characters actually changed, so they weren’t drawn that way anymore, there was a real upswing, but otherwise women can handle computers phenomenally, there’s no difference, right? As I said, it’s never been an issue for me either. I only noticed that in the other interviews, they “said I didn’t like to talk about this topic, that’s uncomfortable for me. really. Yeah, that were women, I said okay, if you didn’t want to talk about this controversial topic…then don’t. I don’t force anyone to. for example we could take someone like Lara Croft. Yeah, I’ve thought of that, too. at Lara Croft you can really see what happened there, so from ffp fffp to, she had taken on a female shape, a normal shape, has become a bit rounder, has not adapted to the general picture, I think something happened there, but you mean if women can program games, of course yeah, that’s true 97 where the first part came out, there were no more pyramids,as breasts, more was technically not possible. i have to admit, but I’ ll mention the killer game thing again a little bit, i still remember that… when I was a teenager, we also played Duke Nukem 3D, which is from 18,in school, when the teacher didn’t looked, in the homework class, we didn’t care that we were three years too young, honestly That won’t be the case today either, but still I have to say quite honestly, today we know, psychologically assured by the way, that there are too many of these baller games, and that’s the point. They’re just not good for the development of child’s mental health. definitely, we know that, that’s out of question. and that’s exactly where we wanted to be a bit cautious, I don’t have any problems with other things, but I believe that such brutal things aren’t good for psychological development. so if you play it too much, too often… it’s practical like with horror movies, if you watch too much of it, you might get fantasies someday… yes, but I think that, let’s just say, shooting movies, shooting stories, it isn’t necessary… like ballagames, it isn’t necessary, I think there’s something else, I don’t know, but you can answer this question, there used to be so many, beautiful, nice, friendly games, why did it always go off into so many ballgames? i think it depends on the genre, for example my genre was always racing, so Need for Speed for example, and then came GTA, you can not only run, but also do some missions, and shoot some gangsters, that has expanded at some point, i think, through technology, game concepts have expanded, if you take Need for Speed for example… the penultimate part was also called “payback” because you weren’t just racing you were still interactive in the movie inside, it was really cool. what was really funny because I participated with my floppy disk magazine for the commodore 64 as an exhibitor at Gamescom, and where the IE 2017 came with these new racing games, with these missions like in the movie, I was in the business lounge as a press, nobody was very interested from the press, everyone was at FIFA soccer that’s what it looks like difficult, difficult The press was expecting a really awesome racing game and they thought “we’ll do something new, with and the player is in the movie, has to do tasks, stop some kidnappers, something.. nobody was interested in that… and it’s all repeating itself, somehow back then there were possibilities to develop new game concepts, nowadays you’ve already got everything, somehow. that’s true. Let’s see who brings something new, yes i still remember where we tried the same with fifa soccer, where you can play such a story mode, as the player from childhood to the professional player appears… it’s more like “mafia” with some bets on, with matches some dubious… there are.. some sports betting stories so difficult. but i think it’s a pity that i’m ten years too young, i think in the time when you did the show, that must have been mega exciting, because everything was new, there was something new every day yes, it was so. but i can just say, i’m glad that i was interested in it, i think very strongly, if you’re not interested in it, you’ll somehow miss the future. so today i’m easy to handle my computer here, but i really know friends who say “hmm how does it work again” and i think that’s very important. yes to beg, my mother is the same age as you, and two years ago she received an e-mail from her bank, sms tan is no longer available for security reasons, “please use our app” “so how am i supposed to do that now i don’t have a smartphone” so she bought an iPhone 2 years ago because of her bank, because it was a smartphone purchase or bank change yes and i believe that in the future this will be much more radical yeah in this digital world and therefore you always have to make sure that you get the connection. I say, it’s just good if you stay with it, I’m very interested in it, it’s sometimes the case that colleagues ask me, ” Can you explain this to me”, or “hey have you already tried this and that?”. have you already thought about it, would you like to do things like that..youtube wouldn’t be your platform? No, it’s just not my platform, and I think it’s nice, but I wonder what am I doing there? yes, there are enough colleagues who do the same, for example, i don’t know his first name, but Lesch… Harald Lesch, who did these Terra x shows. he does the same on Youtube too, actually quite smart. okay..but yes, well, I could, it’s okay too. okay, you don’t have to, i was just thinking, because you’re a media trainer these days, if i read it right. yes, what does media trainer mean, so i don’t teach them how to handle with mediums, in the way how to use a computer. With me it’s always about language, communication, rhetoric, that means someone comes to me and says “i want to hold a speech” then I discuss this speech with him and we… we also train how he holds it so excitingly that people don’t fall asleep, that people stand on their chairs and say “wow, that’s right! ” so by the way, a lot of people hold speeches doctors, politicians, experts and so on.i train as well with colleagues from the TV sector, i prepare them for shows, for example, now think about a normal business field, if a business plan is presented somewhere today or if you want to communicate with the general figures of the company, then today it’s often a Skype conference, with the employees, even there, I think you should know how to behave a little bit. yes i have read about it, if you don’t have a cool background, so you shouldn’t keep it at home in your bedroom and so, if you have any interviews.. imagine you are doing something for your employees and that will be put online afterwards, and they orient themselves a little bit by their boss, how he behaves, how he talks, how he can express himself… and i think it’s important when you’ve trained a little bit and thought about it i’ d love to know how you see… have the shows… you have made several shows for example “computer corner” , “technology 2000”, have they somehow caused a mind changing in the society, have they changed the opinion about technology and computers? not changed, but I think they helped a lot that people also older but also younger people dealt with the topic computer, what is possible there. because i mean not everybody had the money to buy immediately somehow Natario, commodore, or something else… because everything has somehow quickly overhauled and there were again new devices to buy and then to get in touch with the whole topic and see what’s going on there i think we have done a lot would you have done any things differently these days, retrospectively. yes first of all, my hairstyle. (laughing) Okay, well, it was the ’80s, ’90s. secondly, my shoulder pads. Nope, I don’t think so, you know .. there are probably a thousand things where you would say, ah, if I had done it one way or the other, but it’s the way it is, and that’s good so. do you seriously think that people, young people would be interested if we put such an old show on the web? Absolutely. Really? if you take a look at the comments at “computer corner” where people say “that’s how it was then with ibm laptops”, so great, yeah. is there any thing, any topic, in the show where you say to yourself ” I shouldn’t have done that” so i remember, for example, with Stuard Schofain, it was always when there was something with midi, some piano keyboard control via computer he always said,”no people hated it, it never worked and the recording always took six hours because the technology crashed all the time”. we also had that, a lot of technology crashes, that was mega, so a lot of technology crashes, i think we never experienced that again, with any shows,but otherwise, you can’t change that, i took that with a stoic clock, when the technology crashes, then the technology crashes, right? that were some things, which weren’t actually tested, partly that’s what I mean, and i remember all the technicians at ZDF were always standing and saying, “well, we don’t know that now either,” there really was the TV world, practically met the computer world afterwards, and then first of all it has to be checked out, then professional-technically too, so that wasn’t all without..yes, although interestingly this whole computer things c64 Amiga, Atari and all of them are actually made to work on TV, but I probably imagine that our flabby audio Video signal, or SCART, is probably pretty bad on TV yes, in the studio, there are already such cables, so where you really say wow!, there you start to search, where’s the mistake, so we found that often, as long as things don’t happen, like with “technology 2000”, when you have to improvise so much, with technology when something goes wrong somehow, suddenly the recorder passes you by, then it goes and is there any topic that you think that you could have done it differently. where you thought retrospectively, maybe that wasn’t so good? there were definitely some, there were definitely some topics, you’ve mentioned my show about power saving before… yeah.. maybe no one needed that, that could have been avoided, on the other hand, it was really a big topic back then, more and more electricity was used, the electricity became more and more expensive, and because more and more devices were connected to the electricity, i mean before everything was partly hand moved,so to speak, and then actually the era began, where you always zack.. all this was even easier with electricity, so that was certainly not the worst show under the sun, under the TV sun, but i couldn’t say now, no, that there were any big mistakes a-a. and what do you think about the retro heib that has erupted in the last nine years, that everything is coming back, that c64 is being re-produced so i can only tell you, i think it’s crazy, with these retro heib, so the people are freaking out when i..wait a second… i have to reach into my drawer.. moment…but i don’t know if i can find anything here yet, because i always keep those retro things, watch out, look..ahaaa an old folding cell phone . Crazy, I got something else… I need to reach back into my drawer… look, what’s this? oh, an old iPod yeah, awesome, is it? Awesome! they’re extremely valuable now on eBay. you almost can’t pay for it any more. what I have everything in my drawers is insane and this retro heib goes so far that my daughter told me: “tell me mom, do you have any clothes from the 80s? I said yes, there’s a closet, I thought you could use it for a carnival or something. And then she cleaned out half the wardrobe, freaked out, because there were original old Adidas T-shirts in packaging from the 80’s, because I actively played tennis and was then equipped with such things… and there were still Adidas originals with such shoulder pads. She said, mama, if you put that on ebay today, it’s so much money, but she took it all. i find this retro heib funny, because finally i can bring up my old clothes from the basement again and I am mega up to date… and things like record discs are also fully in again but they are no longer called record discs They are now called vinyl by the way,I had the whole attic full of vinyl because in my active time as a radio presenter, I was sampled from all the record companies, and the attic that was so extremely full, i had 40,000 records the intermediate floor, had such a bump and everyone said that doesn’t work from the weight anymore, and then unfortunately i made the mistake and told a colleague ..but that was 20 years ago.. “get the whole stuff out of there”, and he took it i only have few classics today… and all the discs are gone but in the meantime my daughter has the rest. awesome..and what do you think about it, so she freaked out when she was in the basement, and said “mom, there is a record player!” and I said, “exactly” with me it was so.. I started with my grandfather he was always the tech freak in our family and there I started with c64 and my parents always said ” ah, in 20 years, what will interest no one anyway and I think, it’s pretty cool, that I could tell them, “you weren’t right, everything came back!” but look, your eyes were already glowing when I showed you the old iPod, that was by the way the very first one, that came on the market, you saw how thick he is.. yes logical and everything still with the back side made of metal exactly like the first iPhone mine went down unfortunately, it floats in some sea, but I had one too. yes, that’s pretty gross, but of course the question is always.. if we look at what’s partly required now,for some record discs or electronics on eBay, it’s almost criminal that’s true, but i also don’t know why we kept it, as i said, but i still have some old cameras and sound recorders down there and stuff like that, because i think it was too expensive, you have to keep it all, cool yes i have to say, in the 90s there was such a throw-away society, so i still know as a child what my grandfather couldn’t keep, was thrown away and newly bought so as I said, today everybody finds it mega when I pull something old out of the drawer it’s like with Christian spanig, at some point he got out an acoustic coupler, a miniature one for the phone booth, if you wanted to send some data on the way, yeah crazy, awesome hmm.. that would be it actually, that were my questions, great yeah thanks to you for the perspective from that time and your view of things, take care thanks, bye